John Blackwell and Nolan Winter could pull up a chair and listen for hours about how different the world of college basketball was when their fathers were competing in the Big Ten.
Glynn Blackwell played at Illinois from 1984-88, while Trevor Winter played at Minnesota from 1993-97. All these years later, their sons are two of the building blocks for a University of Wisconsin men’s basketball program that must replace six seniors following a 27-10 season that ended last Saturday with a 91-89 loss to BYU in the second round of the NCAA Tournament.
Badgers coach Greg Gard made it clear that Blackwell and Winter are core pieces in what comes next for this program. Those two players are so important to Wisconsin’s future that Gard admitted discussions — read: negotiations — began midway through the season to ensure that Blackwell and Winter would be back with the team in 2025-26.
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Both players said Saturday night following the heartbreaking defeat to BYU that they’ll be returning next season. A day earlier inside the Wisconsin locker room at Ball Arena in Denver, Blackwell and Winter shed some light on how their fathers and other family members have helped guide them through the messiness of being an athlete, student and, these days, businessman.
“He was worried about getting his dinner for that night or something,” Nolan Winter said of his father, who appeared in 35 games with one start on a Minnesota team that played in the Final Four when he was a senior. “He knew he was there for four years when he signed that letter of intent. It’s a different day and age, for sure, with players just kind of jumping ship when things aren’t going their way. We have those talks all the time. It’s a different era.”
One that is muddled and thorny, leaving some fans disillusioned or, in some cases, compelled to stop watching and paying attention to college sports. This isn’t an attempt to evoke sympathy, but these are challenging times for journalists as well. Our job is to find answers for the questions readers are asking and, ultimately, to make complex stories easier to comprehend.
That’s why it was so helpful to be on the receiving end of valuable insight from both Blackwell and Winter in the locker room and, later, from their fathers during phone interviews.
You may even find their perspectives refreshing.
Nolan Winter says he’s ‘got four years here’
Not only was Trevor Winter an athlete at Minnesota, his wife, Heidi, played volleyball for the Golden Gophers.
What they want more than anything in the modern landscape of college athletics is for Nolan to enjoy his experience at Wisconsin and not feel burdened by the external pressures that only have been exacerbated during a name, image and likeness (NIL) era that began nearly four years ago.
Trevor and Heidi Winter try to handle all business matters, he said, and pull Nolan into the conversation when the time is right.
“At the end of the day, it really is a game still,” Trevor Winter said. “The better you play, the harder your work, the more success you’ll have. And the more success you have, everything will take care of itself. So try not to get too wrapped up in what’s going on and the portal and NIL and collectives and all that kind of stuff and really just focus on being the best basketball player you can be and let everything else kind of take care of itself.”
Glynn Blackwell confirmed he’s been approached by coaches from other programs trying to acquire the services of his son, who averaged 15.8 points and 5.1 rebounds per game as a sophomore this past season. His response, out of respect for Gard and his staff, is to ignore those inquiries to talk.
“We try not to get caught up into the business side of it because you play basketball because you like it, you’re passionate about it,” Glynn Blackwell said. “And so that’s kind of how we approach it. And of course Johnathan will be compensated with NIL money, but I had to explain to some of the representatives at Wisconsin that we’re not in it for the money. Give him his due, but we’re not getting ready to be soliciting his value. There is negotiation in life, but you understand it’s not going to be to the point where we don’t have values.”
Glynn Blackwell said one of the family’s core values is integrity.
“Well, for me, my integrity is (that) Wisconsin is the team that saw the value in Johnathan,” he said, “so be faithful where someone was faithful to you.”
That seems to be how the Winters operate as well. Money is discussed, yes, but Trevor Winter said there are many other factors to decision when taking a big-picture approach to his son’s career.
“If you’re shortsighted and you want to get into the portal and you want to make as much money as you can, that’s great,” said Trevor Winter, who played briefly in the NBA with the Minnesota Timberwolves and later in the CBA with the La Crosse Bobcats. “But to be that shortsighted is not going to serve you the best in the long run. You can go right down the list of players that have chased that money and it hasn’t worked out for them.
“And then you see some other players who have found the right fit and have the great culture and are on a successful team. It’s no different than free agency in professional sports. It’s exactly what it is. And you can go and be the highest-paid player on the worst team in the league, and how much fun is that? And is that going to help your future? There are a lot of guys who have taken the hometown discounts and have taken a number that’s a little bit more conservative but knowing that in the end it’s going to pay off. In the end, you’re going to have multiple years, you’re going to have success as an individual and as a team, and all that stuff matters.”
Which seems to be the path Nolan Winter, who averaged 9.4 points and a team-high 5.8 rebounds despite being sixth in minutes at Wisconsin this season as a sophomore forward, plans on taking.
“I’ve kind of got my dad’s blood where you’re with a school for four years when you sign,” he said. “When it comes down to it, it’s basketball, you’re supposed to have fun doing it and you’re just going to enjoy it while it lasts. I’ve got four years here, and I’m going to enjoy every year of it, and I’m just going to let the offseason take care of it.”
If you like that response, just wait until you hear Blackwell’s take on his future.
John Blackwell plans to be ‘a Badger for life’
Glynn Blackwell, an assistant athletic director at a high school in the Detroit area, is a religious man. When asked how he’s helping his son navigate this ever-changing landscape in NCAA athletics, he referred to the Bible. Specifically, Romans 12:1-2, which reads in part, “Do not conform to the pattern of the world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind.”
John Blackwell has taken those words to heart as he tries to separate business from pleasure. It helps that he respects how the Wisconsin staff operates in its NIL approach.
“You try to lock down your core players early,” John Blackwell said. “Last year, we lost some players because of unfortunate situations. It is what it is. I think it’s very smart to try to do it. Me personally, I like how they do it. They take care of their core guys and then they figure out the rest. And they recruit the right guys.”
John Blackwell knows he could hit the open market the way AJ Storr (Kansas) and Chucky Hepburn (Louisville) did last season. But he said his bond with the Wisconsin program is too strong to think of leaving.
“I’m going to be a Badger for life,” he said. “I want to be remembered as a legend here. I want to be remembered as a guy who stuck around, who’s been through all this madness and business.”
That shouldn’t be interpreted as Blackwell taking a shot at any of his former teammates who decided to transfer to another program. He understands each decision is an individual one, with everything from playing time to financial security to consider as factors in those moves.
Fans, meanwhile, are afraid to get too attached to players who won’t stick around Wisconsin for their entire careers. One reader emailed me to say they were going to hold off until the transfer portal ends in April to read this piece after I’d alluded to it in a previous column.
That sentiment is understandable. Hepburn said this during the 2023-24 season — “I’m really proud to be a Badger and will always be proud to be a Badger” — and was off to Louisville less than two months later. So even Blackwell saying he’s “going to be a Badger here for life” might not be enough to convince some fans that he’ll actually do that.
His response to that doubt?
“You’ve got a trend,” John Blackwell said. “I’ve been with the same AAU team my whole life. I changed high schools my sophomore year because I had to, (because) my dad left the school. Me and my dad, we’re always talking about one thing: The grass ain’t always greener on the other side.
“When you get through it and you grind through it, I think it makes you a better person.”
John Blackwell even offered an example of a friend sticking it out at one place: Michigan State senior guard Jaden Akins, who helped the Spartans win the Big Ten Conference regular-season title and advance to the Sweet 16 of the NCAA Tournament.
“He stuck through it and it’s paying off,” John Blackwell said. “He’s a leader on his team, and I know (Michigan State coach Tom) Izzo loves him to death. All this business and stuff, he could have went somewhere else, but he stuck it out with that team. And it’s going to help him in the long run.”
Glynn Blackwell can see the same scenario playing out for his son.
“Why not have the story that Johnathan only had one Power Five offer, Wisconsin, and he’s a three-star (recruit) and he comes to Wisconsin and he’s successful and you just ride that on out?” Glynn Blackwell said. “Shoot for being one of the greatest basketball players in the history of Wisconsin’s program versus trying to go for the money and all that. There are circumstances where kids do have to leave. Maybe it’s playing time, maybe you and the staff didn’t get along or something like that. But that’s what where we stand right now. That’s where I stand, and it’s hard to even operate outside of those principles that I study from the world of God’s standpoint.”
Besides, Glynn Blackwell likes the way his son’s development is progressing at Wisconsin.
“If it’s not broke,” Glynn Blackwell said, “don’t fix it.”
Inside the business side of college basketball
What does need to be fixed is the method to this NIL madness.
Wisconsin took some heat nationally — and locally — last winter when it tried to prevent one of the building blocks in its football program, cornerback Xavier Lucas, from transferring to Miami (Fla.).
At the core of that fight was a “binding two-year NIL agreement” the school said it had entered into with Lucas. The deal was contingent on a federal judge giving final approval in April to a proposed settlement of antitrust cases against the NCAA and major conferences, a move that would pave the way for schools sharing up to $20.5 million in revenue with athletes starting in July.
That memorandum of understanding (MOU) signed by Lucas was crafted by the Big Ten for its member programs, and critics who have seen a template of it contend it’s too heavily slanted toward the schools.
Wisconsin’s lack of transparency on the Lucas matter or its use of the MOU in general has been frustrating, at least to me. As someone trying to obtain answers for the fans who are being asked to help fund these payments to players, it seems reasonable to expect athletic director Chris McIntosh to be more open about the school’s process.
One major concern of mine outlined in a column from January: Was Lucas encouraged to have a family member or legal counsel look over the agreement he entered into on Dec. 2, three days after the Badgers’ season ended with a home loss to Minnesota?
How much of a lesson Wisconsin learned from that ordeal is unclear. Glynn Blackwell said last Friday that he wasn’t familiar with the MOU that may or may not be presented to his son.
“That’s a new one to me,” he said. “I haven’t heard that one. Man, that’s crazy.
“That’s the first time I heard that. The multi-year (contract), I thought they were doing year to year.”
Trevor Winter, however, acknowledged he was aware of the MOU process. We both knew we were treading on shaky ground by discussing this topic.
“I’m kind of in a spot here,” he said. “I would just say this: This is new to everyone. It’s new to the school; it’s new to the student-athletes; it’s new to the parents; it’s new to all of us. So we’re really learning as we go along. As we move forward, I think both entities have to be protected, and I think everybody respects that. We’re familiar with the football player who signed the paperwork and then he wanted to transfer, so I think there has to be an agreement between the two parties, and I think it has to be fair.
“I can’t tell you, I’m not a lawyer, I can’t tell you how it should look or what should be in it or even what is in it, to be honest with you. But I can tell you I think both sides need to be protected as we go forward. And I think up until now, it’s been a handshake and a slap on the back and here’s what you’re going to make next year and let’s go get it. But injuries happen, sicknesses happen, accidents happen, schools can lose interest in players. There’s a lot of things that can work both ways, so I think what we’ll see as we move ahead is a lot of this stuff start to get sorted out and evened out. I don’t know that it is right now, and I say that with complete honesty. I don’t know who has the upper hand right now. I think it’s an awesome opportunity as a student-athlete that we didn’t have back in my day.”
An awesome opportunity and, as Trevor Winter noted, a greater responsibility.
“We were playing for wins and we were playing for championships and we were playing for fans,” Trevor Winter said. “That’s what we were playing for. Nowadays, they’re playing for a contract, they’re playing for their next team, they’re playing for the online bets that people are placing and harassing individual players after the fact. They have a whole different level of pressure that I would say we really didn’t have back in my day. Obviously we wanted to win and obviously if you didn’t win you were going to hear it. Nobody wanted to get booed and everybody wanted to win, but nowadays I think it’s multiplied so much. …
“You don’t have to feel sorry for them. They’re doing fine; they’re having fun; they’re being rewarded, they’re good. But at the same time, it’s not the same game that it was 25 years ago.”
It gives a pair of Big Ten fathers and their sons something to talk about for hours, whether it’s Glynn and John Blackwell in Michigan or Trevor and Nolan Winter in Minnesota.
“Me and my dad have talked about how different times are and how back in his day these rules were applied and now it’s kind of loosened up,” Nolan Winter said. “Obviously, times are changing.”
